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Author Topic: pstrip says 48.000 Hz, reclock says 48.545 :o  (Read 54296 times)
leeperry

Posts: 225


« on: February 18, 2008, 03:52:00 PM »

Hi there,

I'm trying to output 1280*720 48Hz on my Sapphire PCI-E HD2600Pro, and the best I get is 48.545Hz

of course I can't output solid 24.000 framerate with Reclock, and that's annoying Sad

1280*768 48Hz works fine, reclock detects 48.000Hz....so what's up with that ?

is there some internal clock on the graphic card that might be more or less stable at a given resolution ?

or is there something wrong with pstrip ? :|






TIA,
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Rik Wang
Administrator
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Posts: 8833


« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 07:27:24 AM »

I'm not sure what your question is. Reclock doesn't know what the GPU hardware refresh rate is - it measures the number of DirectDraw vertical flips using the audio clock as a reference clock.

PowerStrip uses the graphics card's onboard clock scillator to program the vertical refresh rate.

If you want the vertical refresh rate to match a certain number of vertical flips calculated by Reclock, then change the vertical refresh rate in PowerStrip accordingly.

There is no necessary one-to-one correspondence between the numbers in the two programs.
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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2008, 12:51:51 PM »

ok thank you for the reply  Cool

but look at this one :



Powerstrip is set to 72.000Hz, and Reclock detects 72.000Hz....so I get perfect 24.000fps framerate in MPC HC(http://tibrium.neuf.fr/index.html)

same goes for many other resolutions, like 1280*768 48Hz and so on...both pstrip and reclock show the exact same framerate.

but for 1280*720 48Hz, it looks like powerstrip doesn't do its job properly, or my graphic card is UNABLE to output 1280*720 48.000Hz....the best it can do is 48.545Hz......which gives bad framerate with Reclock and 24.000fps movies.

also for 1920*1080 24/48Hz, the framerate is always fluctuating between 23.99x and 24.00x......is it because my graphic card doesn't have a stable clock ?!  Sad

ideally I'd like to use 1280*768 72/75Hz, but they are nowhere as "rock stable" as 48/50Hz Sad

a friend of mine has copied my 1280*768@48Hz powerstrip settings in his 8600GT drivers, and he ends up with 48.004Hz in Reclock.....so I don't know whether Powerstrip is at fault, or if my videocard oscillator is not sensitive/stable enough Sad

my 1280*720 48.545Hz ends up in 24.273fps in MPC HC :



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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 01:23:05 PM »

so do you think my videocard oscillator is at fault ?

I get rock stable timing at 1280*768 48Hz, but that's it.

all the other resolutions are always fluctuating Sad
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Rik Wang
Administrator
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Posts: 8833


« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 02:21:19 PM »

Your card has a fixed frequency 27.00MHz oscillator - it cannot be wrong "sometimes".

I'll check the vertical frequency later this week with a digital frequency counter and let you know if any changes can and will be made in the next PowerStrip release.
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Rik Wang
Administrator
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Posts: 8833


« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 03:31:12 PM »

In the meantime post your pstrip.ini file so I can see the timings you have been working with (close PowerStrip first).
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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2008, 10:24:48 AM »

Thank you for the reply.

are you saying that all the ATi cards have a 27.000 Mhz oscillator ?

I was hoping that a videocard from another vendor like Asus might improve the stability of my framerate over my Sapphire PCI-E HD2600Pro card ? Sad

basically the framerate is rock stable in 1280*768 48.000Hz, MPC HC and Reclock stick to 24.000fps for hours, with hardly any oscillation.

but any other frequency set in Powerstrip(1920*1080 24Hz, 1280*720 48/50/60, 1280*768 50/60) are always fluctuating like crazy.

even worse, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get real 1280*720 48.000Hz......it's detected as 48.545Hz in Reclock, and this is it Sad

I've given those 1280*720 48.000Hz timings to a friend of mine who also runs the same HC3100 pj, he has input them in his nvidia drivers........and tadam! he gets 48.004Hz in Reclock....I get 48.545Hz with my ATi card.

here are the timings I'm using from my .bat files :

1024*768 96Hz :
/t:1024,72,112,184,768,1,3,42,108776,528

1280*768 48Hz (the big winner as I call it  Cool ) :
/t:1280,62,128,192,768,4,8,20,63821,530

1280*768 50Hz :
/t:1280,62,128,192,768,4,10,20,66646,530

1280*768 60Hz :
/t:1280,62,128,192,768,4,10,20,79975,530

1920*1080 24Hz :
/t:1920,640,48,144,1080,4,5,36,74304,528

this is 1280*768 48.000Hz which is perfectly rock stable :


this is 1280*768 72.000Hz, which is fluctuating like crazy between 23.99x and 24.00x :



and here's a copy of my .ini files :

Quote
[Global Options]
Windows=5.1.2600.2.Service Pack 2
Build=595
ActiveHWStatus=1
Mechanism32=2
AbstractionLayer=0
NT.User=0
TD=0
HintShown=595
Threshold=20
IconManagement=0
RecallColor=0
HKmodifier=0
IdleProcess=1
NoPerformance=1
NoApplication=1
NoColor=1
AutoSelLang=0

[Driver]
Key=SYSTEM\CURRENTCONTROLSET\Services\Pstrip
KeyExists=1
Start=2
File=C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\pstrip.sys
FileFound=1
FileSize=27992
DisplayName=
ImagePath=system32\drivers\pstrip.sys
Type=1
EnumKeyExists=1

[Display Profile]
Display defaults=Display defaults

[Display defaults]
HW.95891002.E420174B.0100=1024,768,32,85,0

[Color Profile]
Color defaults=Color defaults

[Color defaults]
HW.95891002.E420174B.0100=0,0,0,0,0,0,50,50,50,20,0,0

[Performance Profile]
Performance defaults=Performance defaults

[Performance defaults]
HW.95891002.E420174B.0100=700000,700000,0,960,0,0,0,0,700000,700000

[Hotkey Definitions]
24=115
59=103
78=105
74=106
31=110
25=112

[ProcessColor]
Default=0,0,0,0,0,0,50,50,50,20,0,0

[HW.95891002.E420174B.0100]
MonitorNo=0
Driver=ati2dvag.dll 6.14.10.6764
OD_Check=1
OD_CurrentMclk=700000
OD_CurrentEclk=800000
OD_RequestedMclk=700000
OD_RequestedEclk=800000
RefClk=27
DefaultClocks=700000,700000,0,960,0,0,0,0,700000,700000
DefaultSettings=1024,768,32,85,0
EDID=0
MonitorType=?cran par d?faut (Microsoft)
MonitorCaps1=1600x1200 (75kHz/85Hz)
1024x768=1024,72,112,184,768,1,3,42,108776,528
1280x768=1280,62,128,192,768,4,8,20,63821,530
1280x720=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250,528
MaxDriverHRes=2048
MaxDriverVRes=1536

[Debug_HW.95891002.E420174B.0100]
DeviceNo=0
AdapterName=ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO
DeviceName=\\.\DISPLAY1
DeviceID=PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9589&SUBSYS_E420174B&REV_00
DisplayClassKey=SYSTEM\CURRENTCONTROLSET\CONTROL\VIDEO\{978DD2D3-FDE6-42F1-9A2E-8E7CAFBABD04}\0000
MonitorClassKey=SYSTEM\CURRENTCONTROLSET\CONTROL\CLASS\{4D36E96E-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0000
MonitorEnumKey=SYSTEM\CURRENTCONTROLSET\ENUM\DISPLAY\DEFAULT_MONITOR\5&22CDFB9D&5&10000000&01&00
ChipID=15
PCIID=95891002
SubID=E420174B
FuncNo=0100
BaseAddress=FF8F0000
CIE.Chroma=4D7273204B656E776F72746879
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Rik Wang
Administrator
*****
Posts: 8833


« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 10:41:12 AM »

It looks like the output signal drifts at refresh rates below 48Hz. There is a fractional element to the PLL that has no effect on lower clock speeds, causing a disjunction between the real output and the math. It should be possible to improve, if not fix, this issue in the next release.
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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 01:07:05 PM »

awesome, that's fantastic news  Tongue

but you mean "frame rate", not "refresh rate"..........right ?

there's 2 separate issues actually :

1) I can't output 1280*720 48.000Hz with my HD2600.........the closest I can reach is 48.545(checked with Reclock).
if you input these settings in the nvidia drivers, you end up with 48.004 Hz in Reclock Cool

also, 1920*1080 25.000Hz in pstrip ends up up in 25.218Hz in Reclock.



2) except for 1280*768 48, I can't get rock stable 24/25/30fps....it's always fluctuating like crazy between xx(-1).99x and xx.00x Sad

this problem occurs in 1280*720 48/50/60/72/96/100, 1280*768 50/60/72/96/100Hz, 1920*1080 24/48/50/60Hz.

so yes indeed, something somewhere is not stable Sad

do you have any ETA on that fix by any chance ?

thanks again!
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Rik Wang
Administrator
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Posts: 8833


« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2008, 06:43:31 AM »

Quote
but you mean "frame rate", not "refresh rate"..........right ?

Actually, I don't mean either. The graphics hardware doesn't deal in frame rates or refresh rates - it outputs so many pixels at such and such a pixel clock, and that yields a "refresh rate".

I understand what your issues are, but you want to bear in mind that they are not the one that will be addressed by PowerStrip, namely that the pixel clock value programmed is the pixel clock rate output. This is measured with external equipment, not with another piece of software. If the accuracy can be improved, you'll see a new release of PowerStrip fairly soon. Hopefully it will help with your issues.

You should also keep in mind the enormous difference between clock generation and meaurement. When you are measuring and averaging something, you can have as many decimal points of pseudo-precision as you want. I could - to use a stupid analogy - theoretically measure your car traveling down the highway at 65.48576534076958 mph, but there's no way you can drive at that speed.

There are threads here you may want to consult, going back a few years, that go into this subject is some detail, like this one.
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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2008, 10:57:41 AM »

Quote from: "Rik Wang"
If the accuracy can be improved, you'll see a new release of PowerStrip fairly soon. Hopefully it will help with your issues.


OK, thank you for your help and for this link, I've read many pages Smiley

so outputting straight 48.000Hz is illusional......yet if you could -somehow- improve the accuracy, that'd be really great Tongue

I'm also in contact with Reclock's author, and he's checked my logs.

he believes the issue comes from your refresh rate computing scheme, because the logs concur with the pstrip timings :|

48.545 is a far cry from 48.000 Sad

I'm trying to find some software like FRAPS, but with 2/3 digits after the comma to validate whether pstrip or reclock are at fault....do you know of any ?

TIA,
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Rik Wang
Administrator
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Posts: 8833


« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2008, 02:52:44 PM »

Well, PowerStrip may do this for you: PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure > Double-click on the "camera" icon. If you aren't running Vista, you'll get a measurement with 3 digits of precision.

Like Reclock and Fraps, this takes the number of flips (always a whole *integer*!), and divides it by the amount of time elapsed. (PowerStrip uses a simple WinAPI call where Reclock uses the audio clock to measure time, the audio clock being very - but not perfectly - accurate.) But its the human decision that determines how many decimal points to display to the user.

Consider this. In second 1 you had 24 fps, in second 2 you had 24, in second 3 you had 24, in second 4 you had 23, and in second 5 you had 24.

Did you measure 24 fps? Or 23.8 fps? In none of those seconds did you see 23.8 fps. If you say 24 fps, you are at least correct about 4 of the 5 seconds measured. :)

Alternatively, PowerStrip could easily show 15 digitals of precision to all frequencies instead of just 3. It wouldn't make any difference whatsoever to the output of the graphics card, but it would give the illusion of more accuracy.

The problem you have identified in PowerStrip has absolutely nothing to do with "computing". The "computing scheme" is not going to change. The problem is with how this specific hardware works, not how PowerStrip works.

Quote
48.545 is a far cry from 48.000

Yes, I suppose. But do this: how close to 49.450 Hz can you get in PowerStrip? What does Reclock show?

Now how close to 49.450Hz do you get with other programs or utilities?
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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2008, 03:44:30 PM »

ahhhhh. pstrip is such a fine app Smiley

when I double-click on the camera, it shows 48.545

here's some screenshots :



everyone says 48.545 except the pstrip configuration app...

1920*1080 is identical, pstrip camera says the same as reclock :





I think pstrip is the only app that can output 48Hz with an ATi card ?! :|

now that pstrip is installed and forcing its own timings, I'm not quite sure how to check the 1920*1080/25 timings from CCC ?!

anyhow, I gave these 1280*720/48 timings to a friend of mine with an nvidia, and he got 48.004Hz

so if pstrip isn't at fault, what if I buy a videocard from another manufacturer ?! HiS ? Diamond ?

it's hard to believe that only nvidia can get to 48.004, and ATi to 48.545 Sad

49.50 in the configuration panel gives 49.977 with the camera, and 49.977 in Reclock Wink

and 1280*768/48 shows 48.000 with the pstrip camera, and reclock......this mode is so stable.....pure pleasure to use Cool

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leeperry

Posts: 225


« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 04:37:57 PM »

hey Rik, you gave up on me ? Sad

a friend of mine is expecting a HD3650 within a few days, and he wants to output 1280*720 48.000Hz to his DLP pj, I'll let you know how it goes.

if he gets 48.545Hz or better..
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Rik Wang
Administrator
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Posts: 8833


« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2008, 03:10:21 AM »

I am waiting on your response to this:
Quote
But do this: how close to 49.450 Hz can you get in PowerStrip? What does Reclock show?

Now how close to 49.450Hz do you get with other programs or utilities?
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